Does God Change, con’t.

Zach’s thought experiment on God and prayer is an interesting scenario. For those familiar with Open Theism, result (2), about our prayer changing God, is one of the axioms of the belief. Our relationship and actions with God results in a change of what future events take place. That’s why something may seem troubling here. Open Theism has many avenues that Christians fear to travel down because it has an understanding of who God is that is counter to most traditional understandings of God‘s nature. Basically, this understanding of God and His “open” relationship with us is counter all of Christianity’s traditional teachings. I’ll have to explain more about this at some other time when I‘m better studied on the position.

In result (1) of Zach’s thought experiment, God is said to be outside of time, and being outside of time He is then immutable. God does not change as a result of the man’s prayer but only gives him the job after the prayer. But what about the man’s prayer? If God were unchanging, it would require that before time, God intended to give that man a job at t20 despite his prayer. Or was it in spite of his prayer? With this result, one thing that needs to be recognized is that the man receiving the job at t20 is fixed, but so is the man praying at t1. It doesn’t follow otherwise. For t20 to occur, t19 must happen. And for t19 to happen, t18 must happen, etc…. Somewhere between t0 and t19 is the man applying for the job, the board reviewing his application, and the decision for that man to receive the job. All of these things must occur for the man to get the job. Thereby, they are all fixed at their appropriate times. The result is a determinism. So God has orchestrated every event before time and set it into motion. It could still be considered that God acted in response to the prayer, but God had planned the prayer as well. This idea of determinism is very controversial amongst philosophers and theologians.

Perhaps a great method for understanding this would be to watch the movie Tron. In this movie, you have computer programs functioning the way they were designed to, but in the computer world they were just like humans. They thought they did all of their actions by their own power and choice. They even have a religion known as “The Users.” In reality they function how they were programmed to. So if my computer were this way, when I move my mouse, the computer responds by moving the cursor. The computer thinks when it is moving the cursor, it is doing so by its choice. My “divine” influence of moving the mouse corresponds to the computer desiring to move the cursor. The computer acts in response to my influence. Do I actually move the cursor though? I move the mouse. The computer responds by moving the cursor. And with any computer system, there exist bugs that cause it to malfunction. Likewise, sin is “bugs” in the human system. If God moves us but we have a sin, then we malfunction. God provides “patches” through grace. And we must remember that I’m working within a determined system, so everyone who will receive grace from God has already been determined. This is a very similar concept to what Martin Luther talks about in his book The Bondage of the Will. There are flaws in this argument, and much more that could be elaborated to generate a better understanding about this system of determinism, but I will not do that here.

Unfortunately, I also see the open theist position as resulting in a determinism. It’s just that this determinism was not foreknown and planned by God, but is set in place by God throughout time. If a man were to pray to receive a job, God would then have to control the hearts and minds of the hirers to choose the man who prayed. Thus, God controls and determines the outcome by His supreme authority over the earth. But what if two men prayed fervently for the job? Does God then just pick His favorite?

Some other things to think about is that if God is in time, then is He eternal? Or is time eternal with God? He does call Himself the beginning and end. So time is perhaps situated in Him. Our Medieval class is about to discuss some of this, Zach. Perhaps Aristotle, Augustine, and the rest will have some advice for us about time and God.

Does God Change?

On my way to my first day of spring classes today, I passed by a Methodist church with a sign our front, the kind that you can change the letters. And it read, “Seasons change but God is constant.” What could this mean? I think it can be understood in two ways:
1. That God never changes, he is outside of time and the creator of it. If there is no time, there is no change, so if God is not in time, He doesn’t change. He sees all events at once before Him, and none of them affect Him in any significant way.

2. That God’s character stays the same. His character is always holy and good so that He couldn’t one day just decide to do evil things.

I am interested in the first kind of change. In The Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard writes about prayer and has a section discussing if God changes in response to prayer. He says that he was brought up in a tradition that thought that God is not affected by prayer and He would do things anyway even if no one had prayed for them to occur. He now rejects that lin eof thinking and says that God does change in response to prayer. What are the consequences of this? Let’s do a little thought experiment:
Imagine yourself sitting down to pray right after you get up in the morning. You decide to pray that God would help you find a new job today. What happens when you pray? I think there are multiple possibilities:
1. Since God is outside of time and never changes, he sees that at point t1 in the time-block, you will pray for a new job. Then a awhile later, say at t20, you get a new job. In this scenario, God doesn’t change but gets you the new job. However, He doesn’t give you the new job in response to your prayer, he just gives you one after the time at which you pray.
2. God cold be in time and thus experience time along with us. He sees you praying and is touched by your heartfelt prayer. He decides that later in the day, he will grant you a new job, and does so. In this view, God is acting in response to your prayer. The prayer moves God to act.

Dr. Willard seems to prefer the latter view, while the former has pretty much been held for a long time, and has been the standard. It seems to me that the latter view does seem to make prayer more meaningful, but there is something lurking behind the surface. If God is acting in response to your prayer, does that mean he didn’t have all information relating to your wants and needs right before the prayer? What does it really mean for your prayer to “change God?” In this view, it doesn’t seem that the prayer just moves Him emotionally, which it certainly does, but it also prompts God to act. I don’t know what it is but something just seems troublesome there. I can’t put my finger on what it is though.

Prayer has always confused me. There are multiple factors that can affect the way one view’s the nature of prayer and what it does. Proponents of the traditional view are fond of saying, “Prayer doesn’t change things, prayer changes you!” I understand that one of the purposes of prayer is to align our character more with Christ’s, but is this the only purpose? It seems like God does act in response to prayer. I’m not sure, what do you think?

Macs are better than PCs

The Mac operating system is tons better then Windows. Windows is slow and huge whereas Mac OS X is quick and small. This Macbook is way cooler than any pc. So everyone should get a mac, including you Jeremiah, even if you have to save for a year.

woohoo just got a new macbook

Hello, it’s been awhile. I just got a new macbook laptop and now I am using it to blog here for the first time in a while. I am sitting in the business school at OSU finishing up some work and waiting for my 3:30 Personal Finance Final, and then I will be done! I had an Ethical Theory Final earlier at 9:30. It was composed of two essays and it was alright. My wife and I are going to Florida on Saturday night to visit my parents. We will stay until Wednesday night. Have a good Spring Break!